Art of the Supplement – Ep001 – Armando Jacox
(upbeat music) – Welcome to Art of the Supplement, where we discuss all things
roofing and construction industry related, I’m your host John Dye. Today’s guest is Armando Jacox. Armando is the owner of
Foothills Roofing & Exteriors in Denver Colorado. This week’s show is brought
to you by Balance Claims. Contractors with Balance
make success look easy. Learn more at balanceclaims.com. Also sponsored by the Catalyst Group. The Catalyst Group is
the essential partnership for high growth contractors. Learn more at thecatalystgroup.co. Armando man, thank you so much bro. – Yeah you’re welcome.
– I know we got to do some of this stuff in
Colorado a few months ago now. – Yeah yeah, no it’s my pleasure. I love talking to you, so, ya know. – Yeah I mean we, it
was cool, we got to do that one podcast together
and it was actually my intro to podcasting with that. Like you just like opened
my world at that point. I was like, this is where it’s at. – You saw a little bit
more of the potential of where it can go and stuff, yeah. – Exactly and I really
believed in it after we talked, and I’ve been putting these out, so I’m just super excited.
– Well no, okay, so the exact opposite’s
happening for me now. ‘Cause I see the potential
in video, and I want video. And I’ve already been working on video. So I’m getting a YouTube
channel going pretty soon here. And we’re gonna do the
whole podcast on video and I’m gonna do just whatever I can on the video channel. – Dude video’s gonna be great for you. Like it’s gonna, I feel
like for a roofing company, and for what you’re trying to build, video is gonna get your
whole spew out so much better than anything else.
– Honestly man though, I gotta tell ya, I mean, I just
love doing that kinda stuff. I always wanted to be
in show business, okay? – Okay.
– And I somehow wound up as the roofing contractor. (laughs) – That’s okay. In today’s day and age, that’s okay. – Yeah, well ’cause now I can see that it actually works for
you quite a bit, ya know? To do video and podcasting and, – Absolutely.
– Media like you know, it kinda, Gary Vaynerchuk
says that every business should be a media business. – I was about to say that. That’s the reality. And you’ll win because of that. So that’s awesome dude. So you started your company. – Yeah.
– How’s it going? What’s the journey looking like right now? – I mean we’re winning, we’re winning, we’re winning, although I’m
reading a book right now called “The Infinite Game”
have you heard of it? Simon Siminek.
– Okay. – I’m working with a business
coach, a guy named Gary L. Nobody knows him, he’s
pretty, he’s kinda like my secret weapon.
– Not anymore dude. – Not anymore, so that’s okay. And ’cause I just want him to fulfill his, he has what’s called a just cause. So in that book there’s
this premise called, or this, his kind of like philosophy is every business should have a just cause. And so the just cause
is like a cause that, like the business is kinda moving towards, that’s sort of like a just thing. It’s something good that we
can kinda all get behind. Anybody could get behind it. – [John] Right. – And so, we have a mission statement and we have core values
at the roofing company, and it’s extremely, extremely important, but we don’t necessarily have a just cause that we’re all really
kinda like going for, and I think–
– Is that on purpose? – No it’s on accident we
don’t have a just cause. I’m reading the book now. – Do you wanna have a just
cause for your business? – You know I’m, in the book, I don’t know, to answer your question, but I think yes. I’m still kinda processing this book. It’s called “The Infinite
Game” and so it’s– – Give us an example what
your just cause would be. – Well, I’ll give you a sort of a, the thing is the just
cause works in conjunction with a larger way of looking at business, which is that a business
is either gonna be infinite or finite, all business is that way. It’s either infinite or finite. So, most businesses
now, they way we think, they’re all, they’re mostly finite, which is like, hey, we got
quarterly goals, finite. We’ve got a yearly goal, finite. Here’s your sales quotas,
those are finite goals. We have, the stock market
is completely set up on, it’s a whole finite system pretty much, on like quarterly, yearly, so what he, Simon Siminek writes about
is creating an infinite game, where the business is
designed to self perpetuate and in order to self perpetuate, it has to follow a cause, a just cause. It can’t follow something,
it can’t follow like, well our business is to, like for us, it’s like get the best possible roof. – Right.
– That’s kinda like our mission, to get people
the best possible roof. But like that’s not necessarily
really a just cause. You know? It’s kinda like it’s a good
cause, I mean get someone the best possible roof, because
we get ’em impact resistant, class Four,
– Yeah, absolutely. – Malarkey roof system, the
whole nine yards, ya know? But like a just cause I think for us would be a little bit more like, I don’t know, like make
the world a better place through roofing, something like that. That we can all kinda get behind. So, anyways, I’m reading
that book right now, and it’s really kinda got my mind focused around infinite
possibilities as far as like how your business goes, and getting away from just yearly, quarterly end goals. That’s kinda what I’ve been
thinking about a lot lately. – That’s cool.
– Yeah. – That’s cool. So how is it affecting your
business right now today? Are you going to make any
actionable moves you think, because of this? – You know, the way it’s affecting us now, I have to say is, I’ve always been big about the people that we work with, making a good environment
for them, you know? – Okay. – Like a good, happy environment. And this book talks a lot about that. About creating trusting teams, where the teams trust each
other and they trust you. And I think we do trust each other, but there’s different
levels of how far people can go into trusting somebody, ya know? And I think my team trusts me, but I think, and I trust my team, but we could get way
deeper in trust, I think. Trusting each other.
– Right. – There’s always this time
where somebody’s like, “Well, so-and-so’s supposed
to go get some material. “I don’t know if he’s gonna do it, “I’m just gonna go do it myself.” – Right.
– He didn’t trust that other guy, how do we stop that? So I’ve been thinking quite a, and doing some things
to kinda like do that and telling guys, “Hey look,
let him make a mistake. “Trust that he’s gonna do it.” – Trust is huge.
– Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. – Because I know like
I’ve been working with, I had at least one or two
contractors here at Roof Con talk to me today about
how they wanna scale, but they lack that trust in other people to be able to actually turn around and scale their business right now. That’s huge though,
because in our reality, business is all about trust. If your business isn’t based on trust, your people don’t trust each other and trust their systems
and trust everything else, the process, they’re not
gonna be able to succeed within that organization. – 100%, 100%, the only thing is like, it’s very tricky though John, because you definitely,
I think it’s important as a managerial perspective,
to like, you gotta trust people to do the task. The only thing is like what if, so this is the strategy that I use, that I’ve learned pretty
much watching YouTube and practicing it in my real life, which is that if the
task is going to cost, if an error on that task
is gonna cost the company a great deal of money or
a great deal of heartache or it’s gonna be
something we can’t recover from super easily or very quickly or, very quickly, then we don’t
necessarily want that person to do the task. We better provide some
micromanagement to that person. If the task is something where we can say, hey look, he messes this up,
we can live with this problem, let him go for it. Let him learn, let him figure it out. – Yeah absolutely.
– And if he messes it up, make him fix it. He’ll keep fixing it. And it’s not gonna be a
big, as a matter of fact we can look at it as a way that we can, you know, in a way almost
like pay to learn, you know? – Right, but you pay, education comes from different ways,
no matter what you do. – As an owner they have
to kinda know what tasks they can delegate and
what tasks they can’t. ‘Cause you start delegating
stuff that you shouldn’t be delegating, you’re F’d, ya know? – Yeah, but unless, and here’s the thing, like most roofing companies,
most roofing contractors, don’t have a really solid
training system in place to really honestly train
their employees properly, or train their sales people properly, or train anyone that works within their organization properly, so they feel like, they
don’t invest in the training, you’re still gonna pay for it. You’re gonna pay for it
through employee mistakes. – 100% bro.
– You’re gonna pay for it– – 100%.
– Through you having to do a bunch of extra stuff that you don’t wanna do
through your own personal time, which is worth a lot more. When in reality, all ya gotta do is build a training platform. – I’m all about training.
– Yeah, absolutely. – I actually believe that the business should be a training
and development company. – Absolutely.
– I’ve adopted that idea from Randy Brothers, he kinda like, I’m in the Roofing Academy and I’ve learned quite a bit from them. Big thing for him. He scaled his business
from like six million to 15 million in like three years, something crazy like that. And a lot of it’s ’cause
they look at their business as a training and development business. And I also look at the business that way, is we’re a training development business, we’re a media business, and
we’re in the trust business. And like roofing is just something we do. But really we’re in the trust business, and those kinds of things. So I think you’re absolutely right man. I think, however, however,
even though I belong to these training things and
I use ’em and I believe it, I still believe in training
guys from scratch myself. – [John] Absolutely. – [Armando] All right, so I
love doing that personally. – Well, and everyone
learns differently too. – Yeah.
– That’s the other thing. Training’s so subjective.
– Yeah. – Some people are gonna
learn via seminars, other people learn via schooling, other people learn via hard knocks. – The best way to learn in my opinion, is live one on one.
– Yeah absolutely. – I mean, there’s no way, – Some people are just
purely YouTube learners and they’ll just learn it. – [Armando] Well, you
know what though, yeah, but that’s not the best way to learn. – It’s not. But maybe it’s not–
– I mean ’cause I could take a bunch of classes on,
– The best way for you. But for someone else, it
might be the best way. – I disagree. I think human humans learn,
– Yeah, absolutely. – One on one, face to face.
– But see, when you’re learning something like for
example, I recently decided to get an SSG drive in my computer. So I had to literally take apart an iMac, which if you know anything
about the newer iMacs, the screens are sealed onto the frame. Okay?
– Okay, yeah. – So I had to like literally
unglue the whole thing, – Wow.
– And then take it up. Used to be they would just
like, there were magnets that held them in in the older ones, the newer ones though, it’s glued on. So I had to take it all
apart, put it back together. I basically was working with my hands and doing the actually
activity while someone guided me through it on YouTube. And that’s how I learned how to do that. Now I’m getting ready
to do my wife’s next, because we have two older iMacs, and I wanna make them into SSD computers. I want ’em to be a little faster. – Yeah that’s cool.
– Anyways, but that’s how I learned how to do
that particular task. – That’s very interesting, yeah. Because you’re right, self
taught could be better than– – Well I mean for stuff like
that, easy, simple things, that’s one thing, but I
think some of the stuff that you were talking about too is probably more complex than that. – Well, you know the thing
is there’s certain things you can’t learn, because
nobody’s done it before. – [John] True. – And now we’re getting into talking about operating from like first principles and really thinking like
nobody’s done this ever before? How can we, what do we do here, ya know? And how do we figure it out? – That’s trial and error. You just gotta go.
– Yeah. – You gotta pick a lane and go for it, see what happens at that point. – It is man, it’s pretty tricky I think. It’s very trial and error. I mean I’ve, like for example,
the founders of Airbnb, they didn’t really think about Airbnb. That wasn’t originally
what they were doing. Originally they were, it’s called Airbnb because you would sleep on an
airbed in somebody’s house, and then they would feed you breakfast. So it’s an airbed and you get breakfast. – I didn’t know this, that was funny. – Yeah, and that was the
original concept, so– – That’s cool.
– They actually almost quit, ’cause after six months they were like, this is just dumb, like
this isn’t working. And so they almost quit after six months, and didn’t realize they
had Airbnb on their hands. So it wasn’t until later on
when they started working more with other people who
were helping them out, that they started seeing like, wow, they could actually, this is way more than what I originally thought. So when you operate from first
principles trying to learn, I mean it’s tough, you mean, you do have to use trial and error
I think, you’re right. But right and at this,
we’re such in a day and age where so much is on the internet that– – Yeah dude, absolutely. – It’s kinda hard to find
anything that nobody’s done before, you know what I mean? – But therein lies the opportunity. – Mm-hmm.
– Okay. And so, you’re a brand new business owner, you’re a brand new roofing company owner. You’ve been in this industry now for? – [Armando] Since 2011. – 2011, so that’s what eight years? – Yeah.
– So you’ve been in this for a while, you just
started your company, let’s talk about this right. And the reason I appreciate
doing these interviews with you especially and talking,
having these conversations, is because you are so
in tune with technology and you appreciate it for what it is. I mean look it. – [Armando] I don’t go anywhere without this sucker right here, okay? – Yeah, got that. I appreciate that.
– I get the latest phone when they come out, yeah.
– You got a podcast, you’re talking about video, we’re talking about media
stuff, we understand. I think we’re very aligned in our thinking as far as business goes. So one of the things that– – By the way though,
the reason I am that way is not really ’cause I,
well I’ve always been into technology, but
coming to these things, like Roof Con, and coming to Win the Storm and all the other events
that are out there. There’s a lot of good stuff out there. – Absolutely.
– And like for roofers. – Yeah for sure.
– And it’s quite a challenge because you do some sacrifice, be away from family and stuff like that, but I’ve learned so much
about the technology and how to become a better roofer by going to those events
that at this point I pretty much jump on
it every single time. – Well let’s talk about some high level, like industry talk for a second, because let’s just be very transparent that our industry is kind of antiquated. Okay. – I don’t know, I understand, I see where you’re coming from. – [John] Compared to other industries. – In comparison, yeah. – And let’s, we’ll use
the Airbnb for a second. – Yeah.
– Airbnb is destroying the hotel industry. I mean there’s still
gonna be space for it, but it’s, or uber for example,
which is like going to war against the taxi industry,
yet owns very few taxis. Airbnb owns zero hotel rooms, zero houses, but yet they’re like going
after this population. Where’s technology gonna fit
in in the roofing industry in the next five years? – My feeling is that you’re right. It is antiquated. I just don’t really have any
data to support it that well. I’ve seen some studies
out there that show, that show that, I don’t know 20% of roofing contractors use a CRM for example. There’s been those kinda things, but those are just like, I
don’t know if I trust ’em that much, I have a degree
in philosophy ya know, and in philosophy they
basically say poke holes in everything, you know, so like, don’t generalize and you know it’s… So I have trusting that completely ’cause I see my, out in the
field, there’s some very, there’s contractors who are
very savvy with technology. And there’s contractors
who are really stepping their game up and using aerial photography to
create their estimates. – [John] Yeah absolutely, absolutely. – You know, and there’s apps that are– – That’s starting to happen though. – It’s starting to
happen, yeah I don’t think it’s the majority at all. – It’s starting to more
and more become more normal for that to be the case. – So this is my feeling, John, about the industry being
antiquated is that, and my feeling is that
the Pareto principle, which is that 80% of the
production of an industry is made by 20% of the producers. So like on a sales team, where
you’ve got 10 sales guys, 20%, two of those guys are gonna produce 80% of the revenue for the company. ‘Cause they’re like the cream of the crop, that’s sort of like called
the Pareto principle. So my feeling is that in this industry, there’s 20% of contractors who produce 80% of the production and my feeling
is that those contractors are up on their technology. – Absolutely.
– You know? So maybe out of all the contractors, only 20% are not using CRMs, but I would put my money that
the 20% that are producing all the 80% of the production
are actually I’d say probably around 100% using CRMs. – Well, in order to
produce any type of skill, you have to use technology and use tools in order to scale–
– Yeah. – To that type of level. – So that’s kinda my beef with the industry being
antiquated, ya know? – I think what I mean by that, and what I mean by antiquated– – What’s your opinion of my
perspective of that though? – No, I agree with your perspective. – [Armando] Do you really? – Yeah, I think, I totally agree with it and that’s what I’m trying to say, like– – [Armando] Like the crests of the world. – Absolutely.
– The guys who are doing big numbers of the world like– – Every single, Apple,
all the top companies. – Well the roofing
contractors of the world, they’re really in tune
with their technology. – They are for sure, I mean I, I know we were just talking
about this a little bit ago, but I was just recently
in Lincoln, Nebraska this last week, and I walked
through the Apple headquarters which everyone in Nebraska
calls it the Taj Mahal of the roofing industry.
– Really? – It’s like–
– Oh Apple Roofing. – Apple Roofing, not Apple.
– Oh gotcha. – [John] I’m sorry, not
like Apple like iPhones. – Yeah, I keep thinking, okay. (laughs) – Like Apple Roofing in Lincoln, Nebraska. I go through their offices. I mean they’ve got conference
rooms, they’ve got, their technology space
is ridiculously insane. – [Armando] Interesting. – There’s screens all over
the place telling them numbers and what’s going on in their business. – Wow.
– They are in tune with everything down to the penny. – [Armando] Wow. – And that’s, their business is running like a well oiled machine. The other thing that’s really fascinating about them too is, they
do a lot of retail. And retail is really,
because of their technology and stuff, they’re able to do stuff. And there’s some other things that’s going on behind the scenes. But as far as like, by
antiquated, what I mean is, in proportion to the amount of
tasks that we do in business, the amount of human
capital versus technology is not as, in other
industries technology handles a lot more tasks than our industry does. That’s what I mean by antiquated. – I think you’re right,
I think we rely on humans probably more so than we should. – Right, because technology hasn’t crept into our industry quite as heavily as it has other industries. – Again, I think our
industry’s fragmented though. – It is fragmented.
– It’s extremely fragmented. – Absolutely.
– So like– – Everyone’s mom and pops.
– A lot of mom and pop, yeah. – The first IPO is like
in the works as we speak. So I don’t know if
someone’s listening to this two or three years from
now, they’re gonna say, “Oh yeah, we remember this day.” – An IPO for roofing contractors? – There is a roll-up
happening as we speak. – Oh okay.
– So they’re rolling up. – Are you in an NDA for that? (laughs) – Actually, possibly.
– Are you in an NDA? – So, but I will say that there’s a, no it’s out there,
– Who is it? – It’s um, I don’t know if I’m allowed to say. – Are you in on the deal? – Maybe.
– Okay. – So, at least I’m connected.
– Let’s talk after the podcast, (laughs) just kidding. – Yeah we’ll talk. I don’t know if I’m
allowed to talk about this, as much as I’m gonna say that
there’s 13 roofing companies in the industry, I mean
they have a website, I guess it’s no big deal.
– Oh, I know what you’re talking about. – They’re combining.
– That’s a total public thing. The guy just posted that he
got bought out or whatever. – [John] Okay, so it’s
Restoration Builders Inc. – Right, right, yeah yeah
yeah, he just posted online that he got bought by this company. – Okay, so they’re rolling up 13 of the large roofing companies
into one roofing company. Okay?
– Gotcha. – Now that’s their goal.
– I was really confused. He’s here, I wanna talk to him like, hey, you sold your company, like what is that? – There’s some other people
here that are doing that too. – Really?
– I can connect you. – Interesting.
– But at the end of the day what’s going
on is this is first step. Because once you, I mean think of the size of the largest roofing company in the United States right now. Okay, I’ll–
– Well they’re commercial for one, so that’s a whole fragment. – Exactly, but I’m just saying
on the residential side. Okay, that handles with insurance claims. – Residential you can’t even
get more than a 100 million. – There’s a company in
Columbus, Ohio, they’re 160. – [Armando] 160 million? – Okay yeah.
– Really? – The new numbers just came out, it’s Mr. Roof and Able Roofing, is the name of the company.
– Oh Mr. Roof, yeah. – Okay, they’re out of Columbus. – [Armando] Gotcha. They’re retail too.
– They’re mostly retail. And–
– Well retail, I mean so, like I’m an insurance
restoration roofer guy, so like I understand insurance, roofing insurance contracting really well. But like that’s a whole
fragment in and of itself, which is a actually small–
– Well let’s talk about roof insurance for
just a minute though. – [Armando] It’s a small
part of the roofing industry as a whole, ya know? – It is. It really is because while
there’s a lot of roofs being replaced because
of insurance claims, I think the retail side
is actually larger. The retail side allows you–
– Way larger. – To get into upgrades
and other things as well. – California.
– Oh yeah, it’s crazy. – Whole state of California. The whole state, the whole East Coast. – Well anywhere, and right
now we’re in the middle of a housing boom as well,
so I mean there’s a lot of houses being built, a lot
of new construction going on. So there’s a lot of that happening too, but at the end of the day though, when you look at it, our
industry, our largest player’s $160 millions, or let’s just say that that’s the number, okay? – Yeah, that’s huge. – It’s huge, but it’s not huge. – Oh, ’cause we’re in like a $25 billion industry type thing.
– You see what I’m saying? – Yeah, I gotcha, yeah.
– I mean especially, when you’re playing in
the insurance sandbox, I mean most companies are in the three to to $400 billion range when
it comes to their assets, their profits, there’s insurance companies that are making $7
billion a year in profit. – [Armando] Insurance
companies are in that range? – Yeah.
– Okay. – I mean there’s CEOs
making $25 million a year, which is what in our minds
$25 million in revenue is a pretty big company
in the roofing industry. – Definitely.
– So in all reality, we’re pretty small still. And there hasn’t been
that consolidation of, of resources yet to hit our
industry like it’s about, like it’s gonna happen
in the next few years. And I know there’s another IPO as well that I heard about, something
about a garbage company, that’s all I know.
– Yeah, we’ll see what happens, ya know, it’s hard to, no one has a crystal ball, but I mean, I still, ’cause there’s
certain things though. This is a human, you need
humans in this business. – You absolutely need humans. – In roofing contract, in construction. – [John] Absolutely. – You need humans.
– Absolutely. – Like, a robot being able
to go and install a roof is, I think we’re pretty far away from that. However, we do have robots
that we can pull along to seal up roofs, which
happens in commercial roofing quite a bit, need a human to operate it. And we have robots that can– – The little, I know what
you’re talking about. The welders?
– Yeah the welders. It’s just a welder, you know? It’s not, and so we also
have tear off machines. – [John] Correct. – That we’ve been, I’m looking
at getting on actually. – Really?
– Yeah, pretty soon here. – How do you like your
Equipter, by the way? – You know we have Equipters. Yeah, it’s, I love the Equipter, and we’re using it quite a bit, that’s a pretty huge piece of technology – [John] Absolutely. – That is definitely saving
quite a bit of labor. – Do you find that it’s
more of a marketing piece or is it really saving you a lot of labor in as far as making your
guys more efficient? – It’s a marketing piece easily. Yeah, it’s 100% more marketing piece. It’s actually a bit of a hassle. Because–
– Well you can only hold like 10 squares in there, correct? – Equipter won’t tell
you you need an operator. – Right.
– Okay. You need insurance obviously, and you need a truck to pull it, okay? They try telling you that you
could pull it in, you can, I guess you could put it in
a small lightweight vehicle, but if you got anything in there– – I’ve pulled them with
my, I’ve pulled a full one with my 1500 Silverado. – I did too. I have a 1500 Silverado too,
so I pulled it with mine, but I was definitely feeling the, were you feeling the,
– Oh definitely, absolutely. – You’re feeling push. – That’s about the smallest
you can go with that thing. – Mm-hmm, yeah, so we have
a 2500 Silverado for it. So that was, it works pretty well. And it’s a diesel so it
actually pulls I really well, but all I’m trying to say is that like with the Equipter, it is technology and it is a great piece of technology, it actually is helping
us, but it definitely, to answer your question, it’s
more of a marketing thing. Yeah, so part of me feels like
I should’ve probably dropped 40 grand on like–
– Some Facebook ads – Billboards or something. (laughs) Yeah, Facebook ads. But you know, the thing is though, I say that, my crew, my superintendent would probably disagree with me. – [John] He likes it? – He would probably say, “Yeah
we need that thing, dude. “Are you kidding me?” Like, ’cause it lifts materials
onto the roof very easily. – [John] Right, absolutely. – And in Colorado it’s
sometimes it’s tough to get the supplier out
to roof load real quickly. And there’s some areas,
a lot areas in Colorado and Denver that, there’s no driveway, you can’t put the
material onto the rooftop, so we put it in the Equipter
first, drive it around and use it–
– And then pull it up, yeah.
– But yeah, but like the thing is that’s what’s
kinda nice about construction is you will need humans,
all trades really. – I totally agree with
you that there’s still gonna always be that human element. At least in the foreseeable future. – Do windows. Well, but let’s talk industry-wide, and on the insurance side of it, not so much with the
humans, (laughs) okay. – The insurance side of it is– – [Armando] Insurance
side of it not so much, which is very interesting.
– Extremely moving, – It’s very interesting.
– Very quickly and, – Yeah.
– It’s going to become, it’s gonna become a lot
more transparent I believe in the future, I believe
right now the insurance world is so, it’s designed to, at this point, to delay, keep money
moving a little bit slower. It’s just the nature of the beast. But as technology evolves
on that side of things, within just the insurance
restoration piece, there’s gonna be some tools that are coming down
the path that are going to change so much of that. – Well, yeah I totally agree. I mean there’s one tool,
like the drone is big. – [John] Drones are huge. HOVER.
– Most recently though, I like HOVER, definitely, I use HOVER. I know there’s, well we
could talk about HOVER, but just to kinda, this one piece, a job we did recently where the adjuster was like, we got there
like 15 minutes later, the guy was done. And we’re like, “Well,
didn’t you get on the roof?” Like, “No they already
took,” they did an image, a scan of the roof
remotely back at corporate. We already see the hail
damage, roof’s already been, we already have the estimate actually already worked up.
– So they already bought it. – They just wanted me to come by and look at the outside, around the house. – So the adjuster essentially
became an inspector. – He basically said, “I
don’t even know why I came “to do this, ’cause
there’s, you guys probably “coulda just taken some pictures.” – So what does that
tell you about that side of the industry? It’s gonna be more and more
and more of that coming up. – What it tells me adjusters
could have some issues down the road. – I think so, I think the
adjusters are vulnerable. I think there’ll still be
a place for cat adjusters, but even then, I think they’ll, there’s a vulnerability there. – [Armando] I think
there’s a big vulnerability with adjusters, yeah. – Absolutely. – Yeah, so I think that’s, because– – Well we’re seeing it
already with the ladder now, Ladder Assist, all the other
tools that are out there. I mean it changes the
whole name of the game, if you have someone out
there that’s a inspector, rather than an adjuster,
because an inspector can say anything they wanna say and they’re not being
held to the same standard as an adjuster, so what
do you do at that point? – Well you can send an
inspector to document some of that external damage pretty easily. – Exactly.
– I mean it doesn’t take– – [John] I mean you could
do that, as a contractor. – I mean, that would be a waste of, no no, my freaking
19-year-old project manager, who I hired six months ago can do it, ya know what I mean?
– Exactly, exactly. – [Armando] A 19-year-old
guy with probably two weeks experience can do it, right? – Right.
– Be honest with you, a high school student can do it. – Absolutely.
– During the summer for summer work if they wanted to. – Yep.
– So like we could probably train ‘im in like two weeks. – It’s pretty crazy to think about. – [Armando] So I mean, yeah,
doing on site inspection around the property
without getting on the roof is kinda, you don’t need to be
a college graduate for that. – So obviously your very forward thinking, you see these things coming down the line, you’re starting up this business. – Dude, look, if you wanna
get a little deep man, – [John] I do wanna get a little deep. Because I think you’re
in a unique spot Armando. You’re not dug into this
entrenched like philosophy with your business yet, because
your business is so young. See most companies, if they’ve been around for five, six, seven years,
they’re so entrenched and they believe what they believe and they’ve set their vision out and now that things are changing, most people, rather than
change their course, are going to stick to the
plan, what’s worked for them and gotten them this
far, they’re expecting to take ’em the rest of the way. You, on the other hand,
are just getting started. So you’re looking to this as more of a, you’re not 100% married to
your current gamed plan, and you’re gonna be more, and also, I mean your thinking differently
than most roofers thing, I know already. And so you’re gonna be more
apt to change your course and adjust.
– Well the reason, I think we, just so guys
kinda know is that like, the only thing I think
different is I think in terms of drone
technology, I think in terms of being paperless, using iPads, I think in terms of doing
everything that needs to be communicated in the CRM, no more email, not text. A little bit of email and text, I’m being a little
extreme here, but like– – Man I hated, I hated when crews would send me photos in text. I wish like five years
ago we had a CompanyCam, ’cause it would have made
my life so much easier. – Love CompanyCam, yeah,
gotta live by CompanyCam. – [John] CompanyCam’s an amazing tool. – Yeah, so I think
contractors are kinda going in that direction, but the thing is also, it is, that’s why I have this little beef about being antiquated,
’cause my perspective from where I’m sitting
is that there’s actually quite a bit of change going on. – But see, you’re not
the, you’re the exception. – [Armando] Yeah. – And that’s why when
I say that I mean that. – Because I think–
– Okay. – that for the majority–
– Well it’s music to my ears. I wanna be different, ya know. – For the majority of the industry, we are, the guys are
kinda set in their way, it’s this way, this is
the way we’ve done it, this is the way we’ve always done it. And very resistant to change,
whereas you are not that way. – [Armando] Yeah absolutely. – You’re basically molding
yourself into this new next, the next era of roofing. So what are you doing as
far as marketing goes? As far as branding, like
what’s your plan on that? – You know, I definitely
believe in all technology, but man there’s a lot of
huge value in the old school relationship building.
– Right. – Just word of mouth man. Doing it like, over-delivering. ‘Cause you over-deliver, you
do high end customer service, people talk about you. So when it comes to
marketing and sales man, I’m big into old school. – Are you pushing like reviews and stuff?
– Follow-up. Yeah, oh yeah dude. Big on reviews. I mean we’ve only been in
business, I wanna say six months, and we already have I think
15 reviews, Google reviews. We pretty much ask everybody,
we send it to everybody. I’m also like, I’m a big
believer in Google reviews, big believer in Facebook,
I’m a big believer in digital marketing, like
all about it okay like– – Yeah, like I mean you got a podcast. – Yeah, no issue there, I
love it, I’m all about it, I gotta learn it, I gotta
keep getting better at it. No issues there. However, this business is really big in personal relationship building. – Okay.
– Huge into that. My opinion, I could ditch
all the digital marketing and be massively successful by
having personal relationships with people who know
that they can trust us and we’ll do a real good job for ’em. Word of mouth. – Word of mouth, grass roots marketing. – [Armando] Absolutely man,
word of mouth, just grass roots. I mean I still am a real
big believer in that. – Is that what’s bringing your success? – That’s what’s bringing out
success, yeah dude, big time. I was talking to this business
coach I’m working with. – [John] Well you’re in Denver too, you’re in a very competitive market. – Oh yeah, hugely. – I mean for you to compete
in the Facebook, Google, AdWords, anything paid marketing, you’re gonna spend some cash. – So as far as competitive markets go, I don’t even think, we
work really hard mentally, internally as a company, our guys. And I’m always telling guys, I’m gonna get angry if we start talking about our competitors. Okay, I don’t care about our competitors, let them do what they’re gonna do. And I care about our customer. How can we get better at that relationship we have with our customer
and our referral partners. I’m very obsessed with
like, how can we become the best contractor for our customer. And you know, competitors
will always be there, they’re not gonna go away, but if we, customers are extremely
difficult, as you know. Especially with contracting.
– Absolutely. – Working on their house, they
can be extremely difficult sometimes and we tell them
“Hey Mr. Or Miss Customer, “you’re not picky, we love
it, bring it on, bring it on. “Help us get better.” ‘Cause the more difficult the customer is, the better we’re gonna get. So we thrive on that kinda stuff. And then people feel
that, they sense that, and they send us a referral. – Good.
– So we live off of referrals and word of mouth. And so like it’s hard though, to live up to that
expectation with the customer, high expectation with the customer, because as a business we
have to pretty much hire more people, so we have
to hire project managers who can be there most of the job. And bilingual project managers. (John laughing) Like not just a project manager. Bilingual project manager,
English and Spanish. ‘Cause a lot of times the
workers don’t speak English. So we, I’m really big,
I’m shocked when I see like a company picture of like some people of a company, roofing
company and there’s like not one like, I mean,
I guess you don’t have to be Hispanic to like, to speak Spanish, but like I can guarantee none
of those people speak Spanish. At least don’t look like it ya know. I’m probably being
stereotypical, but like, I think it’s–
– It’s the reality. – I don’t even know how guys do it. Honestly man, like how
does a contractor have a non-bilingual dude on staff
and communicate correctly? And I can see why we have so
many problems in this business because communication
breakdowns, it’s that simple. – Right. Dude I love it man. Congratulations.
– Thank you. – I’m really happy for you. I know we’ve kinda built this relationship and I got to see, watch as
you’ve grown this business from literally nothing–
– Built it from scratch. – Yeah, like you guys–
– I intentionally built this from scratch, I
want people to know that. – [John] You threw out the whole playbook. – I want people to know that, okay, I had a really good job
being a sales manager, making a lot of money, and I
quit it, built this business from scratch, got my
freaking design going, my business plan going, and
I intentionally did that, because I find that to
be my life’s calling. – Dude, I’m excited for you guys. I’m glad that it’s working out though. – [Armando] Are we gonna
wrap this thing up now. – Yeah we need to wrap this up so. – Well I know, we could
go another four hours. You said four hours of content,
what the heck? (laughs) – I’m sorry dude. Sorry. No, I know you need to
get back to Roof Con too, but I’m glad we had this conversation, because it’s been enlightening to hear from your point of view and– – I don’t really need
to get back to Roof Con. I’d rather sit here and talk. But the truth is, you wanna
go interview some other people and let’s do that. – No, we’ll hang out
later for sure though. – Okay. – So I appreciate you
Armando, thank you so much for hanging out.
– Thank you. No I really appreciate you too. – And we’ll definitely stay in touch bro. – I find you to be a lifelong friend man. – Absolutely, likewise.
– I really do, so yeah appreciate it.
– So absolutely bro. Thanks man. – [Announcer] Next time
are Art of the Supplement. – How do you separate yourself, right? Because it’s all the same. At the end of the day
it’s like all the same. So 5,000 other roofing
contractors out in Denver, why are they gonna pick Northwest Roofing? – [Announcer] Tune in
Wednesday November 27th.